“But we must hope, for one is obliged to hope it, that the Pope will be driven from Rome, and will not continue the Council, or that there will be another Pope. It is sad he should force us to such wishes.”
(Newman’s Letter to Fr. Ambrose St. John, 22 August, 1870)
We have already addressed that point in general, but have no interest in addressing Larson's points in particular. Also, given his take on the post-conciliar crisis, Larson has no right to be calling others names like "proto-modernist."
As for his letter, yes, that seems to be authentic. However, there is a lot of context there that is relevant that, if missed, can make that whole controversy misunderstood.
Thanks again for stating what is obvious to those who have always found Newman to be a revivified of faith when it flags, that there is not even a whiff of Modernism about Newman. Thise who write nonsense like “he was a prototype-Modernist” and then cite his concerns over the conduct and issue of the Council PRIOR to the definition & overlook his firm adherence after .
As someone wrestling with the Crisis in the Church for over five years now, I feel some despair over the current state of the discussion on the topic: so very much is cited from so many figures, time periods, and different levels of magisterial authority that it seems almost like a "choose your own adventure" in Catholicism today. This while 99% of the pew sitters in the Novus Ordo have no notion of any problems at all.
This one article is worth your entire theological output. It is SO helpful! You just synthesized a now irrefutable “opinion “ re. automatic loss of office , which establishes the Sede V. position on St Peter’s Rock. You brought light when there was uncertainty. You made what was complex so simple to understand. Thank you! 🙏
"...a Pope who teaches heresy ipso facto ceases to be Pope."
An interesting fact is that the The Fathers of the First Vatican Council concluded that no Pope had ever been a heretic - not Liberius, Honorius I, John XII, John XXII, nor any other name that is brought up in association with the accusation of “papal heresy.” Nor had any pope failed to maintain Apostolic Tradition in doctrine, worship, sacramental rites, discipline or anything essential to the Catholic faith & practice. NEVER HAPPENED AND NEVER WILL. The Holy Spirit also prevents heretics from being elected pope (like the Freemason Rampolla in 1903), and true pope can't even teach, promote or approve anything injurious to faith or morals or perfect worship, and not just when teaching ex cathedra.. This is the Tradition of the Church.
"...this See of Saint Peter always remains unblemished by any error, according to the divine promise of our Lord & Savior to the prince of his disciples: ‘I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail....’” - Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus, 6.
While writing more about Newman, could you please answer the concern raised by James Larson that Newman was a proto-Modernist?
https://waragainstbeing.com/partvi/
https://waragainstbeing.com/partvii/
And is it true that Newman wrote:
“But we must hope, for one is obliged to hope it, that the Pope will be driven from Rome, and will not continue the Council, or that there will be another Pope. It is sad he should force us to such wishes.”
(Newman’s Letter to Fr. Ambrose St. John, 22 August, 1870)
We have already addressed that point in general, but have no interest in addressing Larson's points in particular. Also, given his take on the post-conciliar crisis, Larson has no right to be calling others names like "proto-modernist."
As for his letter, yes, that seems to be authentic. However, there is a lot of context there that is relevant that, if missed, can make that whole controversy misunderstood.
This was recently published:
https://novusordowatch.org/2025/08/was-cardinal-newman-a-modernist/
Thanks again for stating what is obvious to those who have always found Newman to be a revivified of faith when it flags, that there is not even a whiff of Modernism about Newman. Thise who write nonsense like “he was a prototype-Modernist” and then cite his concerns over the conduct and issue of the Council PRIOR to the definition & overlook his firm adherence after .
Great article, well written, very convincing.
As someone wrestling with the Crisis in the Church for over five years now, I feel some despair over the current state of the discussion on the topic: so very much is cited from so many figures, time periods, and different levels of magisterial authority that it seems almost like a "choose your own adventure" in Catholicism today. This while 99% of the pew sitters in the Novus Ordo have no notion of any problems at all.
It started down pouring as I was setting up to write some fiction.
Perfect.
It's Leo's way of keeping his (dead) enemies closer!
This one article is worth your entire theological output. It is SO helpful! You just synthesized a now irrefutable “opinion “ re. automatic loss of office , which establishes the Sede V. position on St Peter’s Rock. You brought light when there was uncertainty. You made what was complex so simple to understand. Thank you! 🙏
Many thanks Father!
Do you think the modernists may use Newman’s teachings from when he was still Anglican to undermine the Catholic teaching on the papacy?
"...a Pope who teaches heresy ipso facto ceases to be Pope."
An interesting fact is that the The Fathers of the First Vatican Council concluded that no Pope had ever been a heretic - not Liberius, Honorius I, John XII, John XXII, nor any other name that is brought up in association with the accusation of “papal heresy.” Nor had any pope failed to maintain Apostolic Tradition in doctrine, worship, sacramental rites, discipline or anything essential to the Catholic faith & practice. NEVER HAPPENED AND NEVER WILL. The Holy Spirit also prevents heretics from being elected pope (like the Freemason Rampolla in 1903), and true pope can't even teach, promote or approve anything injurious to faith or morals or perfect worship, and not just when teaching ex cathedra.. This is the Tradition of the Church.
"...this See of Saint Peter always remains unblemished by any error, according to the divine promise of our Lord & Savior to the prince of his disciples: ‘I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail....’” - Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus, 6.
novusordowatch.org/2022/04/felix-cappello-heretical-pope-impossible;
novusordowatch.org/2015/04/heretical-popes-first-vatican-council